Brandeis Caves to Islamic Supremacist Thuggery

Robert Spencer is the director of Jihad Watch and author of the New York Times bestsellers The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) and The Truth About Muhammad. His latest book, Arab Winter Comes to America: The Truth About the War We're In, is now available.


Ayaan-Hirsi-AliBrandeis University had planned to award an honorary degree to Ayaan Hirsi Ali at its commencement ceremony this year, but after a smear campaign led by the Hamas-linked Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and other Islamic supremacist groups, on Tuesday the university issued a statement announcing the predictable result: the honorary degree would not be given.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Brandeis assured the world, “is a compelling public figure and advocate for women’s rights, and we respect and appreciate her work to protect and defend the rights of women and girls throughout the world.” However, as compelling as Brandeis may have considered that work, ultimately it didn’t matter: “That said, we cannot overlook certain of her past statements that are inconsistent with Brandeis University’s core values.  For all concerned, we regret that we were not aware of these statements earlier.”

The Brandeis statement did not mention CAIR, and probably university administrators are unaware of its Hamas ties or its record of opposing any and all counter-terror efforts. Nor did the statement specify exactly what in Hirsi Ali’s past statements was “inconsistent with Brandeis University’s core values.” CAIR, however, did so in its press release (also issued Tuesday; Brandeis snapped into line quickly) which quoted Hirsi Ali from a 2007 interview saying: “I think that we are at war with Islam.”

Ironically, CAIR spokesmen have said the same thing: “The new perception is that the United States has entered a war with Islam itself,” said then-CAIR Board Chairman Parvez Ahmed in July 2007. The only difference is that Hirsi Ali and CAIR are on opposite sides of this war. Is it unacceptable at Brandeis, a contradiction of its core values, to oppose the global jihad? Apparently so.

In the same interview, Hirsi Ali also called for the closing of Islamic schools in the United States. While that is indeed a severe and questionable recommendation, it should be remembered that Ayaan Hirsi Ali attended Islamic schools in her native Somalia. She no doubt also has seen the reports from all over the world showing hatred and violence being taught in all too many Islamic schools. In that same interview she said: “Asking whether radical preachers ought to be allowed to operate is not hostile to the idea of civil liberties; it’s an attempt to save civil liberties. A nation like this one is based on civil liberties, and we shouldn’t allow any serious threat to them. So Muslim schools in the West, some of which are institutions of fascism that teach innocent kids that Jews are pigs and monkeys—I would say in order to preserve civil liberties, don’t allow such schools.”

Is calling for the schools that teach hatred and contempt of an entire group of people against the core values of Brandeis University? Apparently it is.

CAIR’s press release also smeared Hirsi Ali with the Norwegian neo-Nazi mass murderer whose false-flag operation of associating himself with counter-jihadists has proved so useful for Islamic supremacists: “In her acceptance speech for the Axel Springer Award, Ali seemed to express sympathy for mass murderer Anders Breivik, who included her writings in his manifesto.” In reality, in that speech Hirsi Ali referred to “the neo-fascism of a Breivik” as “abhorrent” and noted that Breivik “may have cited the work of those who speak and write against political Islam in Europe and America – myself among them – but he does not say in his 1500 page manifesto that it was these people who inspired him to kill.” 

CAIR, however, has never cared to report the facts accurately and fairly. All it wants is to shut down any and every individual who opposes jihad terror and Islamic supremacism, in any venue. Generously funded and well-staffed, it pounces on anyone and everyone who dares raise a critical word against jihad terror, and mounts a smear campaign intending to get the Islamocritical speaker canceled and discredited.

In acceding to these smear campaigns, event organizers and – in this case, Brandeis University administrators – apparently make no attempt, even a simple Google search, to discover the intentions of the people behind the campaign. They appear indifferent to CAIR’s unsavory connections or its advice to Muslims not to cooperate with law enforcement. The organization’s own claims that it is merely a civil rights organization are accepted uncritically and without examination. As I show in my new book Arab Winter Comes to America, CAIR routinely blindsides officials and places on the defensive by its attacks, and so simply to avoid controversy they usually gave the “civil rights group” what it wants: the cancellation, demonization and marginalization of every speaker who is remotely critical of Islam.

The cancellation of Hirsi Ali at Brandeis demonstrates yet again that there is no one who opposes jihad terror who is acceptable to CAIR and its allies. A report on Islamophobia in the U.S. that CAIR produced in conjunction with the Center for Race & Gender at the University of California, Berkeley in 2011 stated:

“It is not appropriate to label all, or even the majority of those, who question Islam and Muslims as Islamophobes. Equally, it is not Islamophobic to denounce crimes committed by individual Muslims or those claiming Islam as a motivation for their actions. ‘A critical study of Islam or Muslims is not Islamophobic,’ former CAIR Research Director Mohamed Nimer wrote in 2007. ‘Likewise, a disapproving analysis of American history and government is not anti-American… One can disagree with Islam or with what some Muslims do without having to be hateful.’”

These were empty words. The report offered no examples of what it would consider to be acceptable and legitimate criticism of Islam and jihad, and neither CAIR nor the University of California Center for Race & Gender have ever done so anywhere else. Nor has any other Leftist or Muslim group. In reality, anyone and everyone who dares to oppose jihad and Islamic supremacism will become a target for a CAIR smear campaign. The real agenda of Islamic supremacist groups in the United States is clearly not to distinguish legitimate resistance to jihad from bigotry and hatred, but to stigmatize all resistance to jihad as bigotry and hatred, and clear away all obstacles to the advance of that jihad.

And they have made great headway, stigmatizing resistance to jihad in the eyes of large segments of the general public, and even of government and law enforcement officials, as “bigotry.” Yet while it has become generally accepted that standing up to jihad terror is “bigotry,” no one has ever clearly explained why. A highly tendentious and politically manipulative perspective has been foisted upon the American people as accepted wisdom, in which opponents of jihad terror are cast as bigots and efforts increased to rule their perspective altogether out of the realm of acceptable public discourse.

The one certain result of this will be more jihad terror in the U.S. – some of it emanating from hate-preaching Islamic schools that Ayaan Hirsi Ali so heinously suggested should be closed.

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  • Steeloak

    Once the enablers of CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood are removed from power in Washington, the power and influence of these radical groups will be severely curtailed. Our main problem is to ensure that whoever replaces the current regime does not believe CAIR’s false narrative.

    • Porkys2istan

      George Bush and John McCain were such staunch opponents of islamic jihad, NOT. Maybe the problem isn’t that Obama is a closet muslim, maybe it’s hundreds of millions of dollars flooding our political system from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Kuwait? Maybe the problem is that if we don’t bow down to the Saudi global jihad they will turn off the precious oil and plunge the whole earth into an economic depression?

      There’s a reason that Saudi Arabia has planted dirty bombs in all of it’s oil fields. If we (or China) ever get tired of their crap and decide to just take the oil they will contaminate 1/3 of the world’s oil supply for the next century.

      • hyedenny

        Your theory might make sense if we bought most of our oil from them. We do not.

        Arguably, Mexico, Canada, and Venezuela might become Saudi proxies, but they aren’t, yet!

        • Porkys2istan

          Economics Lesson: Fungible

          While it is absolutely true that America gets 99% of it’s oil from the Western hemisphere it is still true that Saudi Arabia could destroy the world economy if it so chose. If Saudi Arabia turned off the spigot then the remaining oil (North/South America + Russia) would suddenly become massively overpriced. America might have ‘enough’ oil, but it would also cost $300 a barrel and cost over $10 a gallon for gas.

          Having ‘enough’ oil only means the government can confiscate it and divert it to the military if necessary. It doesn’t keep the Saudis from grinding all economic activity on earth to a halt.

    • laura r

      they wont be removed. they are permanent & then some.

  • WackoTurds
    • stephanie767

      My Uncle Nathaniel recently got a nearly
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  • Janice Woods

    The fear of having one’s head lopped off is always a consideration when awards such as these are proposed.

    • laura r

      no ones head gets chopped @ universities. enough drama.

      • Maureen55

        OF course not – they have tenured profs after all!

  • cacslewisfan

    If Ali was blaming everything on Israel, she would be up for a Nobel Peace Prize.

    • Lanna

      Ayaan Ali knows the truth, she went through the mutilation, and she understands the deception, the barbarianism, and the evil that resides with the Islamic culture.

      • laura r

        i think it was her comment about norway that got her in trouble.

  • Edwin Woody

    It is all very simple.
    Brandeis University supports female genital mutilation and honor killings.
    No point in trying to add in some other factor.

    • lyndaaquarius

      so surprising that a seemingly sophisticated school would support female genital mutilation and honor killings. You just never know.

    • laura r

      thats not true. why doesnt someone ask the president what he thinks?

  • http://www.clarespark.com/ Clare Spark

    If anyone from the second wave of feminism supports her, I will eat my hat. See http://clarespark.com/2010/06/08/ayaan-hirsi-alis-love-letter-to-the-world/: “Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s love letter to the world.” It starts with a summary of her third book NOMAD. It could break your heart. Fie on thee Brandeis and the idiot administrators who made this decision under pressure from those who would kill this courageous woman.

  • Rosasolis

    We in Netherlands still remember Hirsi Ali, who first fled to this country from
    Somalia, as a young girl not so long ago. Since then, she has been coming up
    for women’s rights in the Islamic communities in Europe, the Middle-east and Africa. When her life was no longer safe here in Netherlands she had to leave;
    so she chose America …to begin again a new life.
    The fact that Brandeis University would cancel a PLANNED honorary degree to this remarkable, courageous woman is very sad and also very worrying…
    Is the Islam now taking over America?

    • kikorikid

      Close, but not yet!
      I would be disengenious to try
      to convince you this was something
      you need not worry about. I’m worried sick.
      I’m getting a lot of input that tells me Islamist
      in America will have their own “Kush”.
      That said, It is shameful that they retracted
      a planned Honorary degree.
      This is but an elemental example of Shariah Compliance
      Enforcement. Let’s see…”If you continue with this honorary
      degree plan, we will consider it “Blaspheme” under Shariah Law
      and (they like to use “thus”) thus, you will be
      punished for Blaspheme under Shariah Law.
      Mr Spencer, Your Totalitarian Future is, here, in the present.

  • NoMosqueHere

    It figures. Liberal jews supporting their enemies and fighting their friends. Nazi CAIR wants Israel destroyed; and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a courageous fighter against Islamic sadism and brutality — guess who the liberal jews at Brandeis side with…

    • john spielman

      The way Brandeis U is going, the next step will be the muslims forcing out ALL the Jews, both students and faculty and turning it into a madrassa

      • lyndaaquarius

        of course.

      • laura r

        for cash, why not? thats how things work.

  • quousque

    “Core values”? CYA values, more like it, cowards.

  • Tradecraft46

    When you respond with self-righteous cowardice, how can you expect any help from others?

    • Habbgun

      They don’t expect help. They expect that cash will buy their way out of things. They are dhimmis for religions and philosophies that haven’t even come into existence yet. Maybe someone employed at Brandeis has offended Islam by running in the Boston Marathon. Should be a big payout. Maybe we can tell where to put the cash drop.

  • Ross

    Absolutely shameful. But the Left has it in for her. We have local pinkos here in Jakarta who run her down, and they are sure of a platform in the left-lib English-language media here too, http://rossrightangle.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/an-unspeakable-woman-and-an-unspeakable-newspaper/

  • SoCalMike

    Brandeis is a university and universities are left wing seminaries where those at war with the West (the US, capitalism, freedom, Israel) occupy special places in the religious hierarchy. Those of us gauche enough to point out the truth or expose the left or Islamo fascism are heretics and apostates.
    Institutions of higher learning and inquiry?? Puh Lease!

  • Veracious_one

    Brandeis administrators have submitted under the pressure of Muslim intimidation and are afraid of the truth that Hirsi Ali would bring to the campus….hatred and anti-Semitism win this round…

    • laura r

      you mean muslim $$$.

  • SKinGN

    This is the same organization that gave an honorary degree to the anti-semite, militant homosexual, Tony Kushner.

    • laura r

      that should be enough to tell you something. why is everyone surprised about this incident?

  • skf1999

    Hirsi Ali is a rightwing tool. A Somalian Aunt Jemima. She went as far are to try to explain away the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, claiming he was forced to kill 77 mostly young people because of the treachery of the “advocates of silence”. Rightwinger champion any person of color who trashes their own people.

    • RalphB

      No facts? No citations? You are either deliberately lying or you have believed the Islamic-supremacist propaganda designed to attack the honor of any critic of Islam by distorting the critics’ words and lying about their beliefs.

      Your “Somalian Aunt Jemima” crack tells us exactly how worthless your opinions are. You see life from a racial viewpoint. You are a racist.

      • Lanna

        Lots of Islamists and Communists on this website and others, continually lieing to force their agenda on people. They stand out, we can always spot them…they are not being balanced or representing Democracy, diversity of thought, or any kind of freedom.

      • laura r

        i didnt realize that black =s islam ??

    • john spielman

      you are a racist. Ms Ali does NOT TRASH people from Somalia nor anyone else, She is, as any sane person, opposed to Islam and its sharia law and the violence that the qur’an and hadiths of Muhammed ENCOURAGES!

    • iluvisrael

      you aren’t fit to shine Ali’s shoes!

    • Drakken

      Still running your black suck uh stevie? Stick your race card up your black azz and choke on it.

      • laura r

        stevie is a white college boy?

  • Kerri Feldman

    I am so disappointed in Brandeis. Have they forgotten the holocaust? What does it take before they realize the hate extends to them?

  • keith

    Time for Brandeis Alums to stop sending checks.

  • http://www.RiderBlog.NotLong.com/ Richard Rider

    Over and over, the point is driven home. IF you value freedom, STOPPING GIVING THESE BAT-SHIT CRAZY PC COLLEGES MONEY!

    Too many people donate to their “alma mater,” based on a hazy recollection of their halcyon college experiences. Whatever you remember — real or sanitized — ain’t what’s happening on almost ALL of today’s campuses — public and private.

    Stop funding these anti-freedom, anti-American, totalitarian-oriented, brainwashing reeducation camps! Target your donations to nonprofit groups that support freedom — CATO, Reason, AEI, Heritage, etc.

    Revise your charity donations in your wills and trusts to fund institutions that support the liberties and Western classical liberal values that at one time supposedly were the standard at American colleges and universities.

    If you must fund a “throwback” college that still champions these values, Hillsdale College stands far above the pack. But frankly this small school has now received more funding than is “needed” — funding from people like myself who have surveyed the collegiate options and settled on Hillsdale by default — there’s practically no competition for such a traditional, rational collegiate education experience.

    So I’ve shifted my donations and my charitable remainder trust beneficiaries to the friendly think tanks. There are actually quite a number of great options to choose from — healthy competition for liberty-oriented donors’ dollars.

    • Lanna

      Our relatives are NOT going to Brandise after this!

  • truebearing

    This disgraceful cowardice on the part of Brandeis begs the question: what are your core values? They should be hounded until they produce a specific list. This generalized BS about “core values” is an attempt to crawfish out of a jam. We need to demand to know what are those values, in their entirety, and then require a well written explanation as to how those values would have been compromised by anyone speaking out against the vile behavior of Muslims toward women. We need to give them an assignment and then a grade. We then need to establish a list of universities and colleges with similar offenses and give them a ranking as a guide for parents who unknowingly pay for indoctrination instead of education.

  • wileyvet

    I sent an email to Brandeis yesterday, outlining the history and affiliation of the MSA, CAIR and The Muslim Brotherhood, and what their goal for America is. Will fall on deaf ears I realize, but I let them know what a cowardly decision it was and how they have allied themselves with terrorist supporting entities. Why was Ms. Ali’s life in danger in the Netherlands? Who exactly was threatening her? We all know the answer to that. The Dutch threw her under the multi-culti bus, and said she was too much trouble to continue to allow her to remain in the country. This women has more integrity in her little finger than all the Brandeis faculty combined. It is not enough that 85 or so signed this petition, but that is only a quarter of the faculty. So those that stayed silent, giving tacit approval are also deserving of scorn and shame.
    In a side note, I was searching muslim websites, and came across an article on beliefnet.com, comparing English translations of the Koran. Written by a Muslim, he mentioned that CAIR used to give out copies of the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation, but criticized his use of explanatory notes that were particularly harsh towards Jews. He then in his article says ” thank goodness, CAIR doesn’t give those out anymore”. So CAIR has switched to a more sanitized version of The Koran, to continue its deception of the American people.

    • Rosasolis

      Here is some further information about Hirsi Ali. After seeking refuge
      in this country (Netherlands) she became a citizen and even joined up
      with one of our largest political oarties. She was very outspoken and
      representative for women’s rights within the Islamic communities.
      One of our best-known film-makers. Theo van Gogh, was making a
      film about Hirsi Ali, when he was attacked in November, 2004 in
      Amsterdam, by an Islamist. This terrorist cut his throat, and then
      pinned a warning to Hirsi Ali on his body, that she would be next!
      This is why Hirsi left this country. The Netherlands government provided
      her with police protection, and did not ask her to leave. She had become
      a trusty and devoted citizen who had not commited any crimes….
      except telling the truth about the Islam and the lives of their women
      and girls! Theo van Gogh had a great vision about the growth of the
      Islam and the dangers it would present to our Western World in the
      future. He called his film “Submission”, but I don’t know if it was completed.
      We were all very shocked by the very cruel murder on this
      very talented man.

  • Stephen Powell

    When an institution of the former calibre of Brandeis University is reduced to the level of politically correct indoctrination, the whole notion of a ‘liberal arts education’ is dead in the USA. The term ‘Islamophobia’, used by the Brandeis president to rationalize his decision, is a propaganda term coined in the 1970s by the Muslim Brotherhood (an Islamist front organization with terror connections). Its sole purpose is to silence all discussion of Islamist operations and goals by flagging opponents as mentally deranged before they say a word. It is the most successful propaganda ploy in modern history. To hear the president of a respected university cluelessly reading from an Islamist script, using Islamist invented, Orwellian language, shows the depths to which we have sunk as a civilized society.

    • laura r

      people have not changed in 1000s of yrs. they are sheep, they are part of the herd. the repeat what they are told to say. sometimes you can get in trouble for saying something different. look@ jesus, many others. thats my take.

  • Stacy

    I couldn’t put her book down. It is a compelling story.

  • Tim N

    I read Ms. Ali’s book “Infidel” a while back. It was a touching and heartbreaking story. It was also inspirational- relating how this woman overcame so much and grew into an articulate and influential woman.
    It was also bracing to see so clearly that it was the West that provided her an environment where she could realize her full potential and where she could escape a soul deadening fate.
    And as an American I was proud that we were a safe haven when the thugs murdered Van Gogh and threatened her life for the crime of having an opinion based upon her personal experiences.

  • Lanna

    Ibraham Hooper from Cair was on the Kelly File…He also showed the true intentions of Brandise and Cair. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a brave woman and she is standing up for the rights of all women, not just Islamic women. Islam doesn’t want people to know how they mistreat and abuse their women with genital mutilations….that’s the real rub here so they come up with false stories to shut down the truth,…They don’t want this exposure. Islam and the Left are trying to force Sharia, Islamic Law on America, they don’t care about your rights or your Constitution, that’s why they are here causing chaos and going after the religious rights of Christians and Jews, or persecuting those businesses who do not go along with homosexuality, which is sodomy and part of paganism, as it was in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.

    • laura r

      a new law was passed in NYC that women can go topless. there were photos of this on internet. there is also a no pants day on public transportation all over the USA. tell me, where is sharia law? it looks like the opposite. most of america goes 1/2 naked in shorts & undershirts no matter if they are old & fat. wheres sharia? show me. cut the drama everyone & look @ reality.

      • Habbgun

        They are opposite sides of the same coin. The same people who support nudity in one case call anything that Islam doesn’t like racism. The point is that it is an attack on ordinary Americans. The sharia is not here but it is creeping up. The clothing standards you mentioned didn’t happen overnight.

        • laura r

          im confused, can you clarify your comment. how is this the 2 sides of the SAME coin? what i see is almost nude slobs all over the streets. also coed bathrooms are coming into schools. there is out & in your face homosexuality. wheres are sharia? i

          • Habbgun

            Very easy. Who supports sharia….do you see G-d fearing Americans for Palestine at rallies or do you see Queers for Palestine? The point is this. The end game is not sexual immorality. It is power. Break down the society and there is a power vacuum. As soon as Communists and Fascists gain power they crack down on homosexuality and pornography and for the worst of reasons. The masses must know they only exist for work. Not spirituality (which they have already destroyed) and not pleasure (which was promised but of course can’t be delivered). Both socialism and Sharia cements the classes in place. They both create immense wealth for the political leaders and destroys the individual who produces. They are interchangeable in goal if not method. So of course they are part of the same coin. Sell sexual immorality to the pervert and Islam to the person who is not comfortable being a pervert. Either way the elites win.

          • laura r

            so its a matter of time that gays & 1/2 naked people will be rounded up & punished. the rich can relax, be gay, or wear revealing clothes as they are behind gates. am i getting it? the poor fat slobs we see who wear shortshorts will be in trouble, the girls who go topless in NYC? the gays who are kissing on public will be arrested too.

          • Habbgun

            It might be quite a while but yes. That is how it will be. That is how it has been through most of history. Not very hard to imagine Islamic gangs enforcing Sharia in middle class and poor areas while running protection rackets and then going to rich areas to party. Chicago wouldn’t even notice the difference.

  • Rosasolis

    Today one of our national news sites (Netherlands) devoted lots of attention
    to the very cowardly action of Brandeis University towards Hirsi Ali.
    Reporter Bart Schut wrote that if the Sharia law would ever be allowed,
    2/3 of the Islamists in this country would choose this primitive, and very cruel
    law above our centuries- old Constituntional Law! Bart also wrote that 70%
    of the Islamists in this country support only the Literal translation and
    Interpretation of the Koran!!!
    I find these 2 recent facts very alarming. The Islam is growing everywhere.
    Soon they will take over all of the Middle-east, Africa, and most of Asia.
    Then Europe, North and South America will be next.
    I hope that Operation American Spring, May 16th will be a great success
    in Washington. I wish I could attend. For those interested here are 2 sites:
    for more information:
    Patriots for America – Ning
    American Spring May 16 2014.

  • TienBing

    I always read anything Spencer writes. He is always informative. But so far I am disappointed on this thread. Because as an added bonus, I usually get amusement reading the nonsense comments of Muslims and dhimmies who invariably comment on Spencer’s articles. I can almost hear them screaming and see the spittle on their screens…
    So far only a couple…
    I’ll check back later…

  • muslimlosers

    Idiot talks nonsense with zero refuting of this wonderful lady.
    Typical Muslim.

  • Habbgun

    Awww……widdle Factsie Wacksie —- you have made it so you can’t be tracked….you are afraid of being followed aren’t you….more Left wing white trash behavior! Very good for yelling, very frightened when pushed back…..a turgid worthless little skank through and through….You are what you are I guess.

    Why don’t you take a chance…let me put you on follow and follow where you go…they are just comments after all and you can whine to the admins when you’re frightened…..

    Typical skanker….calls the cops pigs and the first to run to them when someone gets tired of their worthless little ways…..you are a study…yes you are…

  • iluvisrael

    vintage ‘hasbara’ shlomo flipside – get lost you waste product.

  • SCREW SOCIALISM

    Strong armed?

    The Facts are that Brandeis was strong armed, by islamofascists and regressive progressives, to RESCIND the honorary degree for Hirsi Ali

    Thanks for showing us how DUMB regressive progressives are.

  • laura r

    calm down, it’s just a stranger on the internet.

  • Habbgun

    Nah, I enjoy getting on these types. They tried it on me in person and I found a whole new side of myself when I made them absolutely miserable for trying it. It was rather enjoyable and they succumb remarkably easily. All I want is to have him make his profile followable and I can give him the same joy he gives us.

  • laura r

    if the profile is private how can anyone see it? btw, there are 2 trolls worse than him who i had extenstive dialoques with. (making fun of them, but they took it very seriously). they write very well love to do long intellectual academic posts. either they are the same person or roomates @ the asylum. forums provide a place for crazies to go & congregate.

  • Habbgun

    Who are they…this might be fun…..and of course they take it seriously…you do realize their own families are sick of them and this is the last place they can go to be taken seriously as normal human beings. That is why it is important to bash them. It is a favor to them and favor to ourselves. They can’t stay as they are. They are too screwed up to enjoy life. Hitting absolute zero for being a moron means they only have one direction to go.

  • laura r

    dont remember the names. both write very long academic dossier type of posts. they have no feel for sarcasim, usually in a rage. they sometimes do agree on a point, bit then go back on a long rampage. they are both jew haters, pro muslim. except one guy is very far left, saw his site, he has a mohawk, & hangs out @ mosques. the other is far right, white supremist, claims to be a prophet from god, qoutes the talmund/ elders of zion. somehow both extremes meet in the middle. what drives them crazy is that i am calm, do not react to their supposed shocking ideas. both of these trolls do sound like they had a few lines of meth, or are just deranged. (people like this are violent in real life i think). frontpage gets all kinds. they thrive on getting you upset, so best to stay casual.