Have You No Shame? Have You No Decency?

ptrThe Presbyterian Church has never boycotted Iran, North Korea or China. Shamefully, the organization last week voted to divest from businesses that supply products in Israel, and as The American Jewish Committee stated, a group within the Presbyterian Church was “driven by hatred of Israel” and had led a campaign of misinformation. (Organizations including the Simon Wiesenthal Center, ADL, B’nai B’rith, and many others also condemned the church.)

While the organization has been quiet about burning churches in the Middle East, they wrongfully work to harm the only Jewish state. A 1998 Presbyterian Church General Assembly Overture called for a suspension of all U.S. aid to Israel. For a long time, the website of the Presbyterian Church web site said “Proponents of divestment say it would pressure Israeli and American companies to change policies toward the Palestinians in the same way economic pressure on South Africa led to an end of apartheid.”

The best answer comes from the Zionist prophet, Ze’ev Jabotinsky in an essay he wrote many years ago: “Instead of excessive apology and instead of turning our backs to the accusers – as there is nothing to apologize for, and nobody to apologize to – it is long overdue to respond to all current and future accusations, reproaches, suspicions, slanders and denunciations by simply folding our arms and loudly, clearly, coldly and calmly answer,’Go to Hell!’

“Who are we, to make excuses to them; who are they to interrogate us? What is the purpose of this mock trial over the entire people where the sentence is known in advance? Our habit of constantly and zealously answering to any rabble has already done us a lot of harm and will do much more. The situation that has been created as a result, tragically confirms a well known saying: ‘Qui s’excuse s’accuse’ (He who apologizes condemns himself).

“We ourselves have acquainted our neighbors with the thought that for every embezzling Jew, it is possible to drag the entire ancient people to answer, a people that was legislating at a time when their neighbors had not even invented a bast shoe. Every accusation causes such commotion among us that people unwittingly think, ‘Why are they so afraid of everything?’ Apparently their conscience is not clear. Exactly because we are ready at every minute to stand at attention, there develops among the people an inescapable view about us, as of some specifically thievish tribe.

“We think that our constant readiness to undergo a search without hesitation and to turn out our pockets will eventually convince mankind of our nobility; look what gentlemen we are–we do not have anything to hide! This is a terrible mistake. The real gentlemen are the people that will not allow anyone for any reason to search their apartments, their pockets or their souls. Only a person under surveillance is ready for a search at every moment. This is the only inevitable conclusion from our maniacal reaction to every reproach, to accept responsibility as a people for every action of a Jew, and to make excuses in front of everybody.

“I consider this system to be false at its very root. We are hated not because we are blamed for everything, but we are blamed for everything because we are not loved.  We do not have to apologize for anything. We are a people as all other peoples; we do not have any intentions to be better than the rest. We do not have to account to anybody; we are not to sit for anybody’s examination and nobody is old enough to call on us to answer. We came before them.  We are what we are, we are good for ourselves, we will not change and we do not want to.”

In fact, with Muslim extremists killing Christians & burning Churches throughout the Middle East today, one can ask The Presbyterian Church, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu asked at the United Nations some years ago, “Have you no shame?  Have you no decency?”

Decent people everywhere should say shame on The Presbyterian Church. Israel’s struggle – as Netanyahu notes – against “fanaticism does not pit faith against faith nor civilization against civilization. It pits civilization against barbarism, the 21st century against the 9th century, those who sanctify life against those who glorify death.” It is the good guys against the bad guys.

In recent years, countless Christian-Americans and Christian world leaders have been strong allies and partners for Israel, and they undoubtedly will continue to be, despite this wrong decision by The Presbyterian Church.

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  • http://tatham.vn/dan-nguyet-c136.html roseblue140

    No Shame? No Decency?!?!

    ——————————————–
    dan tranh

  • Adheeb

    There are many flavors of Presbyterian churches in this country and it’s important to keep in mind that the PCUSA is only one, although sadly the largest. This denomination is also the one which has voted this year to side with the pro-homosexual marriage crowd as well. The PCUSA has rejected the Bible which all Presbyterian groups once held to and has become an apostate church. Pox be upon it.

    • StanleyT

      In Canada, we have something similar, called the United Church. They are also rabidly anti-Israel and stridently pro-gay and everything else liberal. For some strange reason, they are losing people left right and centre. Their congregations are disappearing as people start to realize that there’s not much point in belonging to a church that isn’t particularly Christian. I can only hope that similar things are happening in the US.

      • ygalg

        odd “rabidly anti-Israel and stridently pro-gay” while supporting muslims in Palestine although share rabidly anti-Israel sentiments but stridently anti-gay

      • BagLady

        The world is awash with so-called Christian churches. I have a suspicion it has to do with the wealth that can be amassed. (See Jamaica).

        No-one else gives them much credence and I wonder why you take this particular microcosm of backwoods ‘believers’ seriously enough to give them space in your mag.

        • tagalog

          I’m no fan of the PCUSA, but I daresay that the only Christian church that has any affinity for “the wealth that can be amassed” is the Roman Catholic Church.

          • BagLady

            I have a little bit of faith in the new Pope. However, I am waiting for him to put his money where his mouth is. There are many, many Catholic faithful who could see some small reward for their lifelong contribution to the ‘plate’ on a Sunday without having to go to ‘heaven’ first.

            As far as ‘churches’ are concerned, they spring up everywhere all the time. They start in a field with giant speakers and swaying ladies enjoying their day off, dressed up and having a good sing-song (as you do). Once the plate has gone around 2 or 3 times (?) the ‘pastor’ moves on to a rented hotel lobby and finally to a purpose built ‘church’, though never before buying the black limo with tinted windows and the obligatory mansion house.

            Oh how those pennies from the poor mount up.

            My memories of English churches are of locked museums. No haven for those they purport to care about. A bunch of old ladies turning up for matins on a Sunday…..

          • Alleena

            You are still not making any sense!

          • John E Coleman

            Alleena ?? Where are your Well Displayed Wall Hung documents that state you are even capable of making any sense of what would be True ? Dear ??

          • BagLady

            At which point am I not making sense?

            The night my mother died, I rushed out of the house and ran through the country lanes like a mad person. (I’m sure you’ve been there). Eventually the sun came up and the birds began to sing.and I came upon a beautiful village church. I ran to the heavy doors in tears. I don’t know why. Any port in a storm I suppose.

            Needless to say, the doors were locked.

          • tagalog

            Socialism at its finest. Don’t trust religion. And don’t trust the people either.

          • BagLady

            You will have to expand

          • Tim

            The new pope let some Muslim publicly pray in the Vatican while Boko Haram is kidnapping and slaughtering Christians and it is illegal to read a Bible in Saudi Arabia. He’s just another kow-towing dhimmi liberal.

          • BagLady

            How sad. The Pope is failing in his message since he obviously can’t reach your soul.

            I am among the few on here who are not affiliated to any particular religion or political party and yet I see his message. ‘Thou shalt not kill’. Remember. I don’t recall any exclusions to this ‘law’.

            Once you’ve all stopped killing and maiming your fellow man and rendering half the planet uninhabitable because of one WMD or another, you get two blokes around a table and the world’s media hales them as heroes as they sign the ‘peace treaty’. Nobel prizes coming up.

            Like me, I reckon the Pope would like to cut the crap and get straight to the table. Stop the killing. Stop the fallout that is uncontrolled migration.

            We are breeding hatred and it’s hardening us all to atrocities.

            The Pope must despair a little when his guests kiss his ring and then go off to organize another attack on this decade’s ‘enemy’. .

          • BagLady

            However, there can be no greater memorial to the poor than the Vatican City. Hand crafted perfection all done in the name of love.

          • Guest

            ;;

          • BagLady

            Egad. I know language is contracting into code but what am I meant to see here? Two eyes and moustaches? Two nostrils and a beard? Two small pauses in a sentence perhaps? But where is the sentence?

        • Alleena

          Your post does not make sense. If you think these churches are backwoods, you are really confused.

          • BagLady

            Am I? Have you been to the islands lately? Christian churches springing up everywhere. It’s where the money is. You start in a field. Move on to a room in an hotel with rented speakers, buy a fancy car with black tinted windows and, finally, a church of your very own and $millions in the bank. Hallelujah.

      • Wolfthatknowsall

        A few years ago, the Left made a big deal out of the results of a study, which demonstrated that Christianity is shrinking. What was not noticed was that the study focused on mainline Protestant churches. They are the ones who are shrinking. The RCC, and independent Community churches … many of them are charismatic … are exploding in growth.

        The Church isn’t going away. It’s just re-locating to places where clergy and people alike actually believe something.

        • BagLady

          The fact that Churches are losing their congregations as people become more educated does not mean that Christianity is shrinking per se. One is quite capable of ‘believing’ without having to congregate.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            Does the fact that “people become more educated” cause them to lose their faith? Or does it cause them to stay at home, or hit the links … or the beach … rather than go to church or synagogue, on the Sabbath?

            What do you do with the Biblical exhortation to “19Having therefore, brothers, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
            20By a new and living way, which he has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
            21And having an high priest over the house of God;
            22Let
            us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our
            hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with
            pure water.
            23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
            24And let us consider one another to provoke to love and to good works:
            25Not
            forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some
            is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day
            approaching.”

            Hebrews 10:25

            -or-


            20Where two or three have come together in my name, I am there among them.”

            Matthew 18:20

            The Judeo-Christian tradition is about people coming together to worship. Note that I do not say it is impossible to cut yourself off from the institutional church, because the Church is invisible. I do say that it is more difficult to grasp essential concepts the Faith.

          • BagLady

            Faith is the belief in a concept rather that a truth. I think the educated can do that without a preacher.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            If is your position that God is no more than a concept, then I would have to agree with you. But my faith is not in a concept, but a Person.

            However, you seem to be saying that a person’s “education” reduces God to a concept, no more valid than string-theory or existentialism … neither of which can be proven. But faith in God does not require a buck-toothed hillbilly, with a third grade education, living in a house sitting on cinder block in Appalachia. I remind you that some of the great minds of history were believers in something greater than themselves or their books.

            My own undergraduate adviser held a Ph.D. from Yale, spent several years working with Gandhi, but was a believer in Christ. He saw belief in God as more rational than non-belief. How do you explain this?

          • BagLady

            “…but a Person.” A person? an earthling?

            I don’t give a monkey’s for the ‘great thinkers’. I do know that I have something within me that cannot be logically explained and therefore, logically, there has to be a Higher Power.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            It is certainly within the teachings of the Christian faith that God became a Person, in an earthly sense … at least, for 33 years.

            Your second paragraph seems to be an echo of Friedrich Schleiermacher’s argument that since the existence of God cannot be proved, certainty as to His existence can only be found inside oneself … inner experience, feeling, perception, and so on. He would also say that dogmatic beliefs regarding God are completely inessential. Is that fairly close to your attitude towards religious belief?

        • BagLady

          The RCC is only “exploding in growth” in countries hitherto ruled by the boogeyman.

      • BagLady

        The definition of ‘church’ seems to be a building where people of small minds get together in their insular world and do their damndest to impose pathetic little rules on the rest of us in the name of what they perceive to be ‘God’. Only they, and they alone have been chosen to impose His law and they dare to try to lord it over over. Well, not me babe.

      • BagLady

        …. not particularly Christian”

        Not Christian at all. There is no anti anyone in the Christian faith.

      • BagLady

        It would appear that your United Church is the second largest Christian church in Canada after the Catholic church.

        It is true that Christian churches across the world are losing adherents, though I would strongly disagree with you on the cause.

        “… rabidly anti-Israel” or perhaps just anti Zionist policies. Such a vast difference.

    • spyeatte

      I wish I were member of The Presbyterian Church so that I could quit it. What a bunch of losers.

  • A PROUD JEW

    I guess they’ll have to boycott Jesus. He was a Jew who lived and travelled in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. That makes Him a “settler”. OMG!!!

    • Soxtory

      Guess what? They have long ago boycotted Jesus!

      • BagLady

        “They”. Who is ‘they’?

    • Gee

      There is no such “West Bank” – that is Judea and Samaria. The “East Jerusalem” also does not exist. It is merely the eastern part of our capital Jerusalem

      • tickletik

        Good for you for saying that. It’s the absolute truth

      • BagLady

        How very convenient

  • Webb

    I was raised as a Presbyterian and became a member in 1967. It has brought down G-d’s curse upon itself and I wouldn’t touch it with the proverbial 10 ft. pole.

    • Habbgun

      I’ve met Christian missionaries and they are quite disappointed by the Presbyterian church which among Protestants is quite a little ivory tower meant to keep its old money membership happy rather than participate in any kind of greater community. That they would ignore the misfortunes of fellow Christians in ME is not a surprise.

      • BagLady

        I too have met Christian missionaries doing a fine job of educating Indian women and taking in the ones who, for one reason or another, can’t fend for themselves.

        I would have been far more impressed had they left their censorious ‘Christian’ values behind in the US and concentrated on the job in hand.

        For every ‘converted’ prostitute the charity recorded, it was paid $500. The girls used to flock to the school/church to ‘convert’. They bowed to Jesus, gave a promise to give up prostitution, got 200 rupees and a new saree and went home.

    • John E Coleman

      G-d ?? did you mean GOD ??

      • tickletik

        It’s an unconscious custom among religious American Jews to not write out the word “God” directly.

        The basis for this custom is that we have ancient traditions that tell us that the Hebrew names of God are sacred and holy and can only be used in sacred and holy circumstances. e.g, if we are making a blessing over food, or a blessing over some aspect of creation that is manifest before us. For example, the blessing over seeing a shooting star is

        “Blessed are You,our Lord, our God, King of the Universe, Who reenacts the work of creation.”

        The hebrew words for “our lord” and “our God” are considered holy names that we avoid using in common speech.

        Since we’ve been in America, we’ve unconsciously extended this to the word “God”. Personally, I think it’s taking the matter a bit too far, because the English word “God” isn’t a sacred name of God, but it’s a sign of respect.

        For the records, religious Israeli Jews don’t do this.

        • John E Coleman

          The power greater than I has to have a name as in short respect , I call him God !

          • BagLady

            I doubt He gives a monkeys what you call Him so long as you be ‘g(o)d’ as opposed to (d)evil.

          • John E Coleman

            How do you know God is a HE ??

          • BagLady

            Silly remark.

            As you probably know, it is the rule for those of us with Latin based languages to use the masculine term when generalising.

    • BagLady

      Do you have to be a member of a religious organization? Can’t you see ‘good’ from ‘evil’ without being guided by some bloke in a frock? If you feel the need to drop to your knees and thank God for his blessings, you can do that in a field (so much easier on the bones).

      God demands no ‘plate’ be sent round the congregation, nor that the ‘pastor’ live in a mighty big mansion.

      He doesn’t demand that you know all the right moves of obeisance and Latin words of the missal. Incense wafting round the church does lend itself to transcendental mind states but, at the end of the day, the universe is unending and God can easily find another world to replace us with.

      Judgement Day? You people of the ‘book’ clearly cannot perceive the concept of eternity and see everything in terms of your own lifetime. Your own importance.

      • Wolfthatknowsall

        That was a rather “longish” way of saying that you don’t like the institutional church and its rituals. Might I suggest an independent and non-denominational approach? My own church is filled with former Catholics (including the Orthodox), Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Nazarenes … ad infinitum.

        The collection box is passed for the poor, and used primarily in the Third World, where missionaries (not the preaching kind) help dig wells, build homes, and so on. This church feeds and clothes hundreds of people, every year, purchased and donated transportation to people so that they could continue to work, or look for it, and other “good works”. Yes, they preach the Gospel, but they help people because God loves them, not because it will gain grace for the believer.

        The universe may seem unending, but theoretical physicists regularly talk about an end to it. This is why they frantically search for “dark matter”, which would indicate a cyclical universe.

        We creations cannot conceive of eternity, because we exist in time and space. Although not bad-looking (if I do say so, myself), I see the proximate end to my physical existence daily, when I look in the mirror. However, God exists outside of space and time (which is one reason why the philosophical proofs of His existence fail so miserably).

        Might I suggest, once again, looking for a non-denominational church, and seeing how that goes? Who knows? It might help our favorite “street-person” get off the street …

        • BagLady

          I’m all for the gathering together of friends. A good chat, a cup of tea, an exchange of ideas and a sing-song. However, what I hate is the appearance of the superior than thou preacher. He who knows all and comes to sway us all to his way of thinking.

          I am aware of the great things being done by SMALL Christian charities around the world. They are on my very doorstep. I just wish they would leave their personal beliefs behind and get on with doing God’s work. What does it matter if some follow the teaching of Jesus and others look to Buddha? The lessons are much the same.

          Why would you want to introduce the barbarity of the Bible to Animists? A more peace loving gentle people you could not wish to meet.

          Would Jesus augment the lives of the Amazonian Indian? They seem to be extremely happy with their lot and harm no-one. They have no system for dealing with crime simply because there is none.

          Perhaps they were excluded from ‘original sin’.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            First, do you object only to large Christian charities?

            Second, all Christian charities are rooted not only in the teachings of the Bible, but mainly in the hearts of believers. They translate the Bible in a very personal way, and do their best to build the Kingdom of God on earth. It’s a frustrating, work … at times … but personally rewarding.

            There are similarities between the teachings of Christ and those of Buddha. But I’m sure that you wouldn’t accept the extraordinary claims of Jesus, such as “He who has seen me has seen the Father”, and “No man comes to the Father, except through me.” As far as I know, the Buddha never made such claims.

            Did you know that the first recorded experiment with communism took place in 1st Century Jerusalem? Like all such experiments, it was a failure. This is recorded in the Book of Acts.

            Finally, Jesus would augment the lives of anyone who accepted Him. This doesn’t mean that one must accept, also, the institutional church, along with its organization, its rituals, and very often its failures to show Christ’s likeness to the world.

            This old warrior has found his peace with Christ. If He can forgive me, He can forgive anyone.

          • BagLady

            First, do you object only to large Christian charities?”

            I see little if anything of value in the field. It would seem that at least 70% of all that is collected on ‘plates’ goes to the helm.

            “But I’m sure that you wouldn’t accept the extraordinary claims of Jesus,such as “He who has seen me has seen the Father”, and “No man comes to the Father, except through me.” As far as I know, the Buddha never made
            such claims.”

            No, of course I wouldn’t accept such claims. ‘Jesus’ became a political tool. “: If you cant ‘beat them, join them”.

            Prior to his elevation to ‘son of God’ he had been a mere lowly man, speaking good sense to the people and upsetting the 1%

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            Of course, He upset the the “1%”. It was His personal claims that upset them, and the fact that He violated their institutional rules.

            He healed on the Sabbath. Shocking!

            He forgave an adulteress. Unacceptable!

            He said, “I AM”, when asked if He was the Son of God. Let’s kill him!

            The primary reason why, two thousand years after the death of this “mere lowly man”, He still inspires such hatred is precisely because He said He wasn’t a mere lowly man.

            His question rings down through the ages. “Who do you say that I am?” That is why He is hated. No other Founder of a major faith made such a claim ..

          • BagLady

            Finally, Jesus would augment the lives of anyone who accepted Him”

            I am not convinced. I cannot see how a band of
            innocent Amazonian Indians can benefit from your Christian teachings.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            I can. But then, you and I have different opinions on the subject. I’m sure that we won’t reach an agreement, on this.

  • Lanna

    This is the false church mentioned in Revelation……beware any church that has this kind of doctrine, they do not support Israel, and are for social justice, they preach their own doctrine, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ! The shame they will face at Judgement day is two fold….If you are a pastor and do not preach the truth of the gospel when you know it, your judgement will be very harsh…they know the word and lie to their parish!

    • BagLady

      And will you too face shame on Judgement Day for claiming to ‘know’ the mind of God?

      • Webb

        Wow, Baggie — G-d’s little helper — you’ve found a forum!

        • tickletik

          Nah, the batty delusional old broad probably is referring to herself.

          • BagLady

            Hey. Not so much of the “broad”. I’m eating as much as I can to bulk up a bit in readiness for my imminent trip to the west. Reckon I’m going to be cold; not to mention totally pissed off after being tossed like a sack of rice from one airport to the next, paying tax to each and every point of contact as I go.

            You didn’t answer my question. Do you know the mind of God?

      • tagalog

        Lanna can interpret Scripture any way she wants, that’s the Protestant way. Do you actually BELIEVE in Judgment Day? Or is it just an effective conceit for you?

        • BagLady

          Very deep question tagalog.

          In fact I do think its a “conceit”. We are mere cogs in a wheel and of no more importance than that. We are not humble enough to see it. Fear I suppose.

          Judgement Day? Is there a purpose to our our genes mutating? Our technology expanding? Will there come a day when we understand why we had just the one life? That fundamental flaw in His ‘great plan’. What the heck can you do with life’s lessons if you can’t come back and correct your mistakes?

          No more than ants are we.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            So, you are … at the very least … an agnostic, or a weak atheist, then.

          • Kebert Xela

            “What the heck can you do with life’s lessons if you can’t come back and correct your mistakes?”

            Psychological confession?

      • Wolfthatknowsall

        God has given His Mind to the people, through His Word. I can tell you Lanna is completely right about what happens in the judgement.

        • BagLady

          God gave people two arms, two legs and a mind. He gave them a planet replete with everything they could possibly need. He then said: “Enough already. I gave you everything. What do you want from me? Get on with your poxy little lives and stop bothering me with every little detail of the problems you’ve brought upon yourselves because you are incapable of following the few simple rules I gave you.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            Exactly. And that is why the Left’s Church will face judgement, when the time comes. After all, “For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” Hebrews 10:30-31

      • Drakken

        Coming from a little communist like you, that is hilarious.

  • BagLady

    While the organization has been quiet about burning churches in the
    Middle East, they wrongfully work to harm the only Jewish state.”

    Two distinct issues, surely.

    “I consider this system to be false at its very root. We are hated not
    because we are blamed for everything, but we are blamed for everything”

    C’mon again with your sob story. ‘Hate’ is an extremely strong word that should not be bandied around for dramatic purpose.

    Open the borders and let the Palestinians trade like human beings and stop with the propaganda already.

    Who knows, should you do so, you might find the world’s ‘hate’ turns to ‘love’.

    • New Yorker

      “Open the borders and let the Palestinians trade like human beings and stop with the propaganda already.”

      Let the “Palestinians” treat others as human beings then perhaps others will think of opening the borders. And while we are at it, why don’t you throw open the doors of your house first?

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        PigLady’s home is the UK – which is self destructing nicely.

        See the UK/scotland release of the convicted bomber of Pan Am 103 on “compassionate” grounds – the “compassion” for Libyan oil contracts for BP.

        The UK is also on a lemming like suicide mission and wants other countries to join it in its moral, spiritual, cultural dhmmitude – but the Civilized world rejects the socialist, regressive progressive, Weimar UK.

        • BagLady

          You speak for the EU NOT the suffering Brits who are, after all, the UK.

          You know nothing of the ‘civilized’ world coming from New York as you do. Are you ‘packing’ every time you take a stroll through Central Park? Do you take a ‘selfie’ at the scene of a mugging?

          Unless Conservatism has merged with Socialism then you are confusing political ideology.

          There is only one political system running the world and that is ‘financial capitalism’; a misnomer if ever there was one. Hanger-on sponges to capitalism more like, leeching the life-blood from entrepreneurs to feed the bloated 1%.

    • Webb

      I’ve never met an Israeli who wanted to purchase a suicide vest, and you can bet plenty of those would be coming across an open border. Bad idea, Baggie. But if you would volunteer to frisk them all a good 100 yards back from the crossing . . . Feel the love, Baggie, feel the love.

      • BagLady

        I wasn’t actually thinking of your wall. I was thinking of their fishing rights, their export rights, their import rights, their right to earn a living without such stifling constraints. How do you rebuild a demolished building when concrete is on the list of banned substances?

        You keep harping on about suicide missions but this is history, surely. The Palestinians realized long ago that it harms their own cause entirely. However, the practice may well rear its ugly head again when all attempts at diplomacy fail and continue to be met with contempt from your increasingly hard-line right wing Knesset.

        I too live in a poor community and I expect if heavies came to break down the doors of old ladies and ransack their homes, the local kids would be hurling stones at the heavily armed thugs. With no toys and no computers, village kids become ace at the sport. Do they deserve a bullet? That is the question.

        (I dread to hear the callousness of your response)

    • tagalog

      I think the Jews’ history gives them a uniquely authoritative position regarding the claim to be hated.

      • BagLady

        It seems to be becoming more of a desire than a truth.

        • Kebert Xela

          You’re the living embodiment of that abyssal charnel reek of unreasoning hate.

          To deny what you are is unhealthy. You’ll end up a crazy old cat-poisoning bag lady.

    • the observer

      Palestinians only like to export suicide bombers. If they wanted to export anything else the border would be open.

      • PAthena

        Calling Arabs “Palestinians” is the consequence of Soviet propaganda. The terms “Palestine” and “Palestinian” meant “the land of the Jews” and “Jew” since the Roman Emperor Hadrian, after he had defeated the last Jewish rebellion under Bar Kochba in 135 A.D., changed the name of Judea to “Palestina” in order to eradicate all memory of Judea and the Jews; he outlawed Judaism and renamed Jerusalem “Aelia Capitolina,” “Aelius” being his gens name. That is why after World War I, Great Britain was awarded the “Palestine Mandate” to be “the homeland of the Jews.”
        Gamal Nasser, ruler of Egypt, and the Soviet Union, in Cairo in 1964, founded the “Palestine Liberation Organization” (P.L.O.), whose name shows its Soviet origin. This organization came to fame when it massacred the Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympic Games in Munich, and an effect of this was to call Arabs who want to destroy Israel and Jews, “Palestinians,” with the phony history and propaganda that follows.

        • tickletik

          They can’t even pronounce the damn name properly.

          They have no “p” sound. So they always say “balas-teeen”

      • BagLady

        That is such a pathetic answer. Do you really expect the world to believe that Palestine boasts no businessmen, no entrepreneurs, no farmers, no builders, no doctors, no nurses, no teachers, no ‘ordinary’ people seeking a peaceful life?iran

        Instead of pussyfooting around the problem, perhaps Israel should come clean on its actual intentions. If it’s going to blow Palestine out of the water, then let’s here some honest discussion on the subject, instead of this hyped up threat of your extinction by little boys with stones.

        Argentina is closer to a nuke attack than Iran. Why isn’t Britain worrying about the Falklands instead of piddling about in the ME?

    • Habbgun

      They tried that duma$$. PA under autonomy was given areas to govern. Those areas became ambush bases against civilians in Israel. Then we were told by collaborators like yourself (even Jewish ones) that once the PA had an effective police force they would cut down on what was just criminal and not terrorist behavior. Then Israel had to withstand terrorist attacks using those weapons carried out by the so called PA police. You may even know this you don’t care. An actual workable peace would have been incremental. See what works and expand it.

      Islam doesn’t work that way. Little things like giving the PA control of water facilities meant that suddenly the water system broke down right before Shabbos so Jews couldn’t take a shower before the evening. The ‘slams are very aware of religious context. They get their sense of entitlement and can amass booty through enhancing their own religion and abasing others.

      You are a slimy little collaborator but you sure whine when your own excuses are applied in Britain by your political betters. Then you don’t like the outcomes. Richly deserved though they are. Chav.

      • BagLady

        collaborators like yourself” Ha ha ha. They shoot them, don’t they? Such an heavy punishment for disagreeing with you

        “….terrorist attacks” I prefer reciprocal attacks.

        “Little things like giving the PA control of water facilities meant that
        suddenly the water system broke down right before Shabbos so Jews couldn’t take a shower before the evening”

        Now I’d have to be some fool to believe that Palestine is in charge of your infrastructure. From everything I read, power outages, sewage problems, water shortages etc etc are suffered by Palestinians not Israel.

        When was the last time your lights went out?

        • Habbgun

          That is why I called you slimy you slimy little Brit collaborator. I live in America another country your fascist little self hates. The infrastructure referred to was in the West Bank where there was supposed to be coexistence under Oslo. There never was. Your precious Palis sabotaged what they could when they could and your miserable little self felt a vicarious thrill. . Chav.

          Anyway I’m glad you called a terrorist attack a reciprocal attack. It says where you are coming from.

        • Wolfthatknowsall

          “”….terrorist attacks” I prefer reciprocal attacks.

          I prefer pre-emptive attacks …

    • Elliott

      Study just a little part of C20 History and you will find that all JEWISH people who lived in what is now Israel, prior to 1948, were classified BY THE BRITISH as ….. PALESTINIANS. Moreover, the local Muslim Arabs despised the idea of being referred to as such by the British.
      Also, did you know that there is no letter “P” in Arabic. Thus, most of these people refer to themselves as Balestinians. Just thought you’d like to know.
      Finally, “BagLady” why was the area across the Jordan River called “TransJordan”, when the British allowed it to be ‘created’?

      • BagLady

        (I wrote a response to this yesterday. It’s disappeared. Strange)

        What has your “P” got to do with anything? Phonetics, my dear Elliott.

        If you go to the Golden Triangle, gekkoes say “gekko” in a very distinct Donald Duck voice. Move south a few hundred miles and they say fcuk off in a very distinct Minnie Mouse voice.

      • BagLady

        Let’s not forget the time when the area had no borders, no walls nor fences and, because of the starkness of the terrain, people wandered.

        The British probably invented bureaucracy with their parchment and journals and quills. You only have to witness the Indian system up close to realise the insanity of it all.

        Even I, in the couple of decades I have wandered about, have had my freedoms reduced greatly by the love (and huge profits) of bureaucracy. It only took one country to produce a visa that filled an whole page of a very expensive — and thin — passport, plus another half page for ‘entry’ and ‘exit’ rubber stamps, before everyone copied the idea. Your ten year passport will be full now in under 5 years and, with the new and wonderful ‘bio chip’ has doubled in price. All in all, THE most expensive ‘book’ in the world.

        Oh how these little countries jumped on the bandwagon. “Fifty bucks.” They’d say on the border.

        “FIFTY BUCKS?” I say. ” Will an ambulance scrape me from the road and take me to a real hospital when I have an head on collision. Will your police save me when I’m abducted and ransommed? I am not American and this is not America. I do not have $50 and, in any case, I’m English and it’s free for me (I lie). He reaches for his stapled papers and draws his finger down the list. The rain is lashing down outside and the red dirt road is now a slippery river. My luggage is dripping and so am I.

        “Fifty bucks for English.”

        “I’m not coming then.” I say. “Stick your country.” and head out back into the storm.

        [small border post Kenya/Tanzania]

    • tickletik

      Nope. And I don’t give a fig seed either.

      • BagLady

        do go back to sleep

        • tickletik

          What a nasty and stupid little piece of work you are. You don’t even realize it, but you effectively said that I am awake and aware.

          • BagLady

            Your definitions of ‘nasty’ and ‘stupid’ are a little off kilter. Your one liners are also quite meaningless.

            I presume you are on ‘something’ that renders you awake but unaware.

  • james connolly

    I didn’t know the Presbyterian Church USA was run by a bunch or MORONS. Now I know.

  • Habbgun

    Who whines to pay the Dane-geld?
    The collaborator through and through
    They talk about the sensitivity of the enemy
    They make such a heartfelt boohoo
    They know what is nice to say and what is not
    Without them as overlord you deserve to rot
    Says the enemy is misunderstood he has little you have a lot
    A slight is just a slight they just say wave it away
    An atrocity is all your fault you didn’t listen you refused to pay
    Sometimes they ask just for silence sometimes they wear a gun
    Says its it only to help you otherwise you might be overrun
    The say they are enlightened and you live in the past
    You should bend your knee to them that is the only way you’ll last
    We’ll always have the Dane-geld and the collaborator too
    The lies are all the same they only seem new
    You can reject the Dane-geld. Just remember what is true.

    • BagLady

      In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
      He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
      If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
      Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
      And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
      His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
      If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
      Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
      Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
      Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
      My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
      To children ardent for some desperate glory,
      the old Lie:
      Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.

      • Wolfthatknowsall

        Ah, Wilfred Owen.

        There was nothing glorious about the fighting in the trenches of the Great War, nor about the dying. There was nothing glorious about the death of my best friend in Vietnam, blown in half by a 152mm howitzer shell. And Mr. Owen certainly wouldn’t have thought his death glorious, just before the end of his war.

        But as long as the human condition causes people mad for power and wealth to take … by force … the lands of other people, it will be necessary to maintain military forces required to resist them, and if need be, to destroy them.

        Death in war is not glorious. But we can honor those who have served. After all, they left their homes, and did their duty.

  • Soxtory

    Nobody cares about the Presbyterians any more. They are as worthless as the Episcopalians! These people should live in Israel and see how long before they die in a suicide bombing or a rocket attack!

  • dnha14

    They should just vote in Hitler as their President, just to let everyone know where they really stand.

  • Fritz Kohlhaas

    The Reformers – Luther, Calvin, John Knox etc.- were virulent anti-Semites.
    The Presbyterians are followers of Calvin. Bible-thumping hypocrites!

    • BagLady

      Anyone constrained by one tome is, by definition, a narrow minded hypocrite.

      • Wolfthatknowsall

        Anyone constrained by their own opinion is, by definition, a narrow-minded bigot.

        Do you read back your comments, to yourself, before you hit the “Reply” button?

        • John E Coleman

          I ask that same question ?????

  • ProclaimingGodsTruth

    Shame on The Presbyterian Church!!
    Everyone should be reminded of a verse found in the Book of Genesis:
    “And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.” -Gen 12:3 (KJV)

  • RevnantDream

    They got rid of crosses. Denounced Jesus as the messiah along with the resurrection, virgin birth. Last week they ordained practising gay Ministers. What’s next heterosexual orgies for unmarried pastors?All that makes Christianity a faith stolen away. This is no church but a nest of Marxists waiting till the old parishioners who built the churches die off, so these socialists can take over the properties to divest the churches of there assets to enrich themselves.
    We seen it with the United Church. With its atheist monitors.Frankly these are political organizations now, that should not be getting tax breaks.
    No wonder for 300 years Christians meet in house churches forbidding building houses of worship, least people start looking to the buildings rather than the Messiah as Holy.

    They forget the New Covenant was made to Jews not Gentiles. Jesus Himself said salvation is through the Jews to the lady at the well.To Jewish believers, not the Church which is supposed to be the body of the Messiah on Earth being the salt of the Earth lead by the Spirit of God. We are only unnatural growths included in salvation by worshipping the Messiah of Israel.
    We are joined to the olive tree of Israel by the Law & prophets as our roots. Not to paganism. Any Church that doesn’t stand up for Jews has lost its way.
    These folks would feel more natural at a socialist democrat party head quarters, or a communist Party parade. Infiltrated years ago by leftists.

    Socialism is their God. Money now that they have destroyed any semblance of being Christian. Which in Greek means “people of the messiah”. The have no ethics just social relativism. With the rise of anti-Semitism they wed themselves to worldly fads. While ignoring the reality of real persecution by Muslims of Christians & Jews. Let alone Hindus or Buddhists by Islam.
    They are just appeasers with a leftist agenda.

    It will split with the socialist council’s taking absolute control as in what used to be the United Church here, now the NDP( socialist party) on its knees.The real Christians will find homes elsewhere.
    Its why there are so many Churches. They have a shelf life till the none believers take them over by Infiltration. Its always been this way sadly. That or doctrine become the opposite of the founders. Most especially Scripture.

    • Lauren R Baum

      Two Churches will and Do exist side by side at the end of this age we can all begin to see the Philadelphian church more clearly as the lines of demarcation are drawn by the Laodicean church, who has cooled down long ago. The Presbyterians have always been a bit left of center. They have just taken another step away from the conservative church.
      Jesus says: come out of her, my people. Do not become part of this new inquisition it is a reversion to Paganism as has already been said.
      I have friends in the Presbyterian church and I see them being tarred by the same brush. Come out of her, come out my people.

      __________________________________________________________
      Lauren Baum is a Pastor and Preacher born into a preacher’s family and a Christian for more than seventy years.

      • BagLady

        Politics in religion? Well I never! Thought such things were beneath the teachings of the Church. Keep your minds on a higher level chaps. God is not mucking about in your pettiness. He’s watching you and shaking his head in despair.

        • Wolfthatknowsall

          That response might mean more, if I for one second believed that you think God has a head to shake …

  • gasman06

    Please understand one thing, the PURA is a large organization and makes decisions that are not necessarily supported by the entire membdship; but are put forth by vocal and well funded minorities, much like the US government. When you blast the PCUSA, blast the General Assembly, not the rank and file members who are not the ones making these poor decisions.
    If all who disagree with the decisions, then who will be left to try to change these decisions?

    • gasman06

      5 hat is PCUSA in the firest line.

    • Drakken

      To belong to this organization means you condone its teachings. Vote with your feet and leave.

  • JackSpratt

    This is the “religious” LEFT. They have infiltrated more than just the Presbyterian Church too.

  • BagLady

    Yeh. Let’s have a look at the bank accounts of these Holy places.

    America always reckoned it was 10 years in front of Europe and yet, here it is, living in the dark ages, being conned by ‘holy men’ screeching hallelujah and passing round the plate.

    • Wolfthatknowsall

      Once again, that’s your impression of the institutional church, and not of God … they are not one and the same.

  • Lovable Hater

    Israel is an apartheid state. Fact.

    • naro

      Israel is a democratic nation. It is occupying territories in the West Bank forced upon it by Arab war fanatics in 1967 that attacked Israel unsuccessfully. You do not know the meaning of Apartheid. Long live Israel.

  • naro

    The Presbyterian “church” is a racist and cowardly “church” that would not dare apply their standards for the ridiculous boycott of Israel to any other nation in the world with far more egregious occupation of other people. I would respect them if they boycotted China, Russia, Iran etc that are occupying other people’s lands. They are anti Semitic scum “church.”

  • naro

    The Presbyterian “church” should DIVEST THEMSELVES FROM THEIR HATRED OF JEWS!

  • Johnny Palestine

    A perfect example of a duplicit Presbyterian was Dwight David Eisenhower.

    Perfectly willing to lie to Israel in 1956, promising to respect her need for defence against vile lying Arab Muslims. Where was Ike in 1967??? LIAR

    I would not be surprised if he had advanced warning about the planned JFK Asasination. But he was so out of place being a real leader – I blame him et al for the suicidal Battle of the Bulge. More men died because of him than should have.

    I admit I do not know all the facts and I am very pissed off at the Presbites, but Patton would have been a real leader.