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The recent debate around the ‘Groypers’ and antisemitism creeping into the movement has led to lots of Weimar references. And I’m as guilty of that as anyone else. But there’s a big problem with the Weimar rhetoric.
America isn’t Germany.
Germany was a generally conservative country with a similar ethnic population (apart from Jews and Slavs, both of whom the Nazis targeted) and a violent radical left as well as a less violent moderate left. The Nazis had a backdoor arrangement with the Soviet Communists under which both sides stirred up violence in order to delegitimize any moderate alternative and then convinced enough conservatives to let them take over.
Both the Groypers and their allies in the movement, and their opponents, think this is what’s happening here.
They’re missing one big part of the picture. The Left isn’t an insurgency, it’s been the establishment in control of most institutions and levels of government. .
Conservatives aren’t the weak-willed establishment they’re depicted as, but the insurgency trying to maneuver for the most part from outside the system against a system just waiting to crack down on us.
What would happen if the Groypers and their allies got their wish and a bunch of trolls who do Nazis salutes for the cameras became the movement?
We got a little taste of it with Russiagate, Arctic Frost and J6 against a guy whose only offense was being a bit brash. One riot around Congress and the Democrats had militarized D.C. and turned it into a Green Zone for a month.
And much of the public went along with it.
Now imagine the permission structure they would have if the GOP had actual Nazis in it talking about killing off minorities.
We’d have one ‘incident’ followed by a ban on the opposition and 10 years of martial law. And the trolls responsible for it would spend the rest of the time giggling about it on social media while America ceased to exist. Fuentes, Tucker and their ilk aren’t ‘Nazis’, they’re trolls and talking heads who pretend to be things they’re not in front of the camera. They’re not leaders of a movement, they’re playing a game that will fall apart the moment words meet hard cold reality.
Tucker and Fuentes giggled on their podcast about how they thought the other was a ‘Fed’. Which if any of them are ‘Feds’ matters less than that they’re playing into the hands of the Left which is angling for a chance to criminalize the political opposition. J6 gave them a chance to test out what the public would accept and the public, which gets much of its reality from the Left, turned out to be okay with troops in the streets of D.C. and nationwide FBI manhunts.
(And if you think law enforcement and the military won’t go along, you weren’t paying attention in 2020.)
America isn’t Weimar Germany. It’s not in a state of social chaos, it’s being taken over by a revolutionary Left which has been working from inside the system to make this happen for the last 50 years. And they’re waiting for the idiots, creeps and trolls playing Nazis on social media to give them the chance to shut down what President Trump has unleashed.
All they need is a reason that they think the public will go along with it. Playing into their hands will end America.
Fuentes has figured out one thing.
And it ain’t that “Hitler and Stalin were cool”.
Fuentes does not affiliate with any other media figure or cause other than his “Groyper Army”.
He wants to be the last man standing when it all implodes.
People 35 years old and younger are the future.
And Fuentes believes that he is their future.
If he believes that he is their future, he needs to take a harder look at ‘hitler and stalin”s actual history. Stalin for one didn’t giggle much.
But you keep electing Democrats, the true Nazis complete with brownshirts,voter fraud, propaganda wing, and Adolf Youth
Do you know me and my election records somehow? I think you keep talking out of your rare end.
essentially like most radical overgrown kids on both sides
Yep……..no doubt about that.
Thanks Daniel, good analysis. People making Weimar analogies don’t seem to have a feel for what it was like. There are a lot of angles. For one thing the divergent views of France and England after WW1. Then the Hyperinflation. Then the massive foreign loans. Then the underground re-militarization. Then the attitudes of the German people, the hardest thing of all to grasp. Etc.
It is better to understand and evaluate other people and their viewpoints, rather than to advocate silencing their speech or doxxing them to motivate others to “neutralize” them. I remain grateful to Mr. Greenfield for believing this and putting it into practice.
Of course that should mean the various ’causes’ in action should follow suit rather than planning to silence/kill a whole range of people they don’t like
Agreed. I am impressed that you remain dedicated to the defense of free speech. But even that concept is not without limit. Here is a quote from an article I read recently:
“…the idea that truth is great and will win in a free contest with falsehood and error is not necessarily true. It presupposes that “Truth” can defend itself. But the truth is powerless without great men to preach and teach and defend it against slander and lies. Thus, the truth can only possibly prevail in an ideological marketplace where there exist public intellectuals and men of integrity, honor, intelligence, and rhetorical power to defend her. Most civilizations throughout history have not had such men. Or if they have, they have often been assassinated because the truth they preach offends against men’s wickedness.”
If you are interested, here is the article:
There are two options.
1. We have free speech and count on people to do the right thing
2. We have the free speech that some totalitarian regime decides we should have because people are terrible but the regime will be true to our values unlike every regime in history
The premise behind the second approach is that human nature is bad, but somehow some monarchy or institution will be good.
The Founding Fathers chose freedom because they were realistic about human nature and they didn’t believe any institution would be better than the human average, they knew it would be worse
All of that assumes the average American would be a basically good person. That’s a problem today. But you can’t make people ‘good’ from the top down.
Option 1 is best, but impossibly utopian because people will not always “do the right thing.”
The closest approximation of Option 1 requires a people with common language, heritage, laws, history, religion and culture to determine their own “good.” These commonalities would then create government and laws uniquely suitable to the people, while informing the civil magistrates to be a terror to those who do not “do the right thing.” (Romans 13: 3-4).
Option 2 is like what we have now, but the “terrible” and unlawful people are white Christians, especially men, against whom there are no restrictions of speech. The “values” are not ours, but reflect the government’s apparent purpose to destroy, replace and dispossess us. You are right to see this as the unfortunate tendency of all governments composed of mortal men who cannot long resist the ring of power.
Yet ANY option will have blasphemy laws reflecting the ruling government’s “religion” and restricting speech accordingly. Today’s religion is basically still DEI or “Thou shalt embrace diversity until no discernible trace of the white race or heritage remains.” The current government considers those who carry out this mandate to be doing “do[ing] the right thing.”
The 1928 Book of Common Prayer, used in my church every Sunday says “…We beseech thee also, so to direct and dispose the hearts of all Christian Rulers, that they may truly and impartially administer justice, to the punishment of wickedness and vice, and to the maintenance of thy true religion, and virtue.” The assumption is Christian rulers, maintaining Christian religion, and impartially administering justice under Christian law. This is no longer the case, but it should be.
You are right to fear the corruption of men in positions of power — the “totalitarian regime.” Perfection has not yet arrived, but Christian men, recognizing, favoring and enforcing Christian laws would be less inclined to abuses of power, especially if our clergy and populace were also Christian. Every people has tendencies towards sin. In the white race, it is cowardice and the abandonment of the virtues and duties that are necessary for true freedom and peace. God have mercy upon us all.
Even a brief survey of European history and its monarchies, especially before the Reformation, don’t reflect the notion that monarchs are claim to be Christian are any less prone to abuses.
The founding father certainly didn’t believe so and it’s not the idea that America was founded on
So true. A mere claim to be Christian does not a Christian make.
“[The groypers are] missing one big part of the picture. The Left isn’t an insurgency, it’s been the establishment in control of most institutions and levels of government.”
I have begun studying the issue and I don’t think this is globally true of groypers. Fuentes claims his racial views were aroused by watching Mark Levine and that he loved Prager U videos. He was fully on board with Trump and conservatives generally, but came to see, in effect, that electing conservatives does little to change policy. So now he feels betrayed by so-called Neo Cons and Conservative, Inc.
I do not watch much Fuentes. When Mr. Greenfield provided a link to the Tucker Carlson / Fuentes interview, I had my first exposure. I think Fuentes represents a younger cohort that is furious with the squandering of their nation and heritage by those in my generation. They are asking pointy questions and not receiving answers, but directions to shut up for the most part. The generations financial and military support for Israel is under threat from this group, and the response of Jewish influencers is being exposed.
Why has the U.S. sent and continues to send almost $4 billion to Israel (population ~ 9.6 million) each year when Israel has basically free education and healthcare? Why do our soldiers receive full benefits for fighting in the IDF, while our veterans at home are struggling to get basic care or cancer treatment? Why is it okay for Israel to have an ethno-state and strong borders while our open borders and diversity are encouraged with much Jewish support? Is it true Netanyahu funneled billions to Hamas through Qatar? Why was there such a long delay before Israel responded on October 7th? Why are many Jews upset with Zionists and oppose the war in Gaza?
Have I said anything untrue? I know even these questions offend the purity spirallers, but what is wrong with asking questions?
All cogent questions but the diehards loyalists will likely take offense and pillory you for some of the things you’ve said. It’s happened to me before in this forum but it hasn’t yet deterred me.
In America, we’re still allowed, for now, to have an express different of opinions. Enjoy it while it lasts. The left is working diligently to limit free speech and your right to express an opinion contrary to theirs.
Thank you. Another pointy question I have, to which there doesn’t seem to be a cogent answer is why did Israel bomb the Qatari negotiators in their Doha capitol?
Qatar was working on our behalf to end the war, and Netanyahu has given Hamas millions of dollars over several years using Qatar as a means of delivery.
I am the mother of 3 beautiful sons among my 5 children, two of whom are active-duty military. I got downvoted for stating that I did not want them to die for Israel. That fact reveals something important.
The negotiators were Hamas terrorists.
Qatar wasn’t working on our behalf, but on behalf of Hamas, which it backs, to save Hamas.
America’s for the bunch of wars to liberate Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. It has fought zero wars for Israel
If you read the site regularly, you know all this.
Thank you for your reply. It is difficult to get the truth. Why did Netanyahu use Qatar for years to funnel millions to Hamas?
I also checked various news outlets that confirm Israel bombed the negotiators in Doha on September 9th of this year.
Why is our government giving Israel, a foreign government, permission to geofence our Christian churches here?
There are many, many such questions. I will continue to read the articles here, as well as other sites.
Netanyahu didn’t use Qatar. Qatar used Netanyahu to move money to Hamas. Israel allowed it because it seemed to keep things quiet.
Qatar is a state sponsor of the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas is an arm of the Brotherhood.
That makes sense – Netanyahu was used. Biblical Israel tried that tactic many times without success.
There are times when the bible gives Israel a much greater grant of land – from the brook of Egypt (not the Nile) to the Euphrates. Is this “Greater Israel?” It would explain silence in the face of good-faith negotiations and the requests over the years for the US preemptively to bomb Israel’s neighbors.
The propaganda now is over the top. NO foreign government should be allowed to geofence propaganda in the U.S.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/israel-geofencing-churches/
To what purpose does Israel receive billions and billions each year? Is there mutual transparency or reciprocity? Shapiro called the charge of dual loyalty antisemitism. Loyalty cannot be “dual.” The proper word is “divided.” Would Israel’s sons die for our cause? Yet, I am downvoted, without comment, when I say I don’t want my sons to die for Israel.
I blame America’s deterioration on our own leaders, but when a husband has an affair, does his wife blame him? Or the other woman? BOTH are at fault, but the husband much more so. MIGA is not good for us. I can’t blame Israel for trying, though.
There’s no Greater Israel. Israel’s current borders have too many Muslims already. Israel gave up land to Egypt, Jordan and to create a ‘Palestinian’ State.
Which ‘neighbors’ has Israel asked the U.S. to bomb? Israel has treaties with Egypt and Jordan. Israel unilaterally took out Syria’s nuclear reactor after trying to get permission from Bush.
Responsible Statecraft is a Soros propaganda site.
The US uses military sales, like the kind Israel gets, to control when the countries getting US weapons can go to war and for how long. We saw that play out recently during the Oct 7 war when the Biden admin began cutting off resupply.
Once you get a weapons platform, you’re then wired into the supply line and the White House can decide how you fight and when you stop.
Fuentes is a troll who says whatever will get him attention at any moment. He wasn’t radicalized by PragerU videos or Mark Levin, that’s more trolling, his movement came out of places like 4chan which combined anime with edgelord politics, memes and porn.
And please spare me the recapitulation of the same lies and smears about Israel.
This isn’t about Israel. It’s about trying to mainstream a guy who admires Hitler, Stalin
https://x.com/ConceptualJames/status/1984277394837131770
and lots of references to abusing underage kids
https://x.com/TheMilkBarTV/status/1988148541299233184
https://x.com/EYakoby/status/1984264362891288775
You can keep repeating the same lies and try to distract from what Fuentes really is
But it won’t change what he is and what you’ve decided to get in bed with
I don’t believe ideas should be discarded because of their source, but I do agree the source is important as one aspect of discernment.
Israel doesn’t want the USA’s money but US ties Israels hands in this dark deal and USA makes billions from it and jobs within this complex deal and controls many decisions it should stay out of. All the while pretending to be benign. Why don’t you get some facts about the military and business deals and the technology exchange between the 2 nations before you wind yourself up into any more blood libels. Sheesh!
Israel is not, and never has been, an ethnostate. It’s 18% Muslim.
This (great) post could unfortunately turn all too prophetic. In Europe, the opposition to Woke-Islam is indeed being effectively banned. Of course, FPM has reported on this. The U.S. is all too close to the same situation.
Fuentes, Carlson, Owens et. al need to be thoroughly rendered impotent. If calling them out is not enough, then other strategies (decent ones!) need to be employed. People at risk for being caught up in the evil that these jerks are peddling must be turned off of that evil and onto a healthy version of MAGA. That was roughly what Charlie Kirk seemed to have been doing. The murder of Kirk has clearly emboldened the Woke Right. I don’t know what his widow will turn out to be like. Hopefully she will kick these creeps to the curb. If she can’t or won’t then support should be thrown to those who can and will.
It’s a travesty that The Glazov Gang isn’t the most watched show in America. They would slay the Woke-Right in a single news cycle.
“Now imagine the permission structure they would have if the GOP had actual Nazis in it talking about killing off minorities.”
I don’t mean to be too much of a pissant here, because we all git whut your say’n, but the Nazis were uber liberals and if there was a parallel group of liberals now to match with those back in 1930’s Germany, picking from the big three of the singularity (communism, socialism or fascism) it would be the Nazis. The best way to understand liberals and categorize them is how they get useful idiots to vote for them and cause evil. There are really no policy differences. And the liberals now recruit by a constant stream of propaganda demanding hatred towards whites and Christians. They use the often monolithic and dominant hatred and bigotry towards Jews to obfuscate what they are doing.
So yes we are Wiemar Germany and the uber liberal Nazis are in the endgame of taking power and killing off the Christians, Whites and Jews.
They are efficient with putting a label or assigning a narrative, and putting their enemies in jail. it just isn’t a parallel situation.
It appears that many do not understand that Communist, National Socialist German Workers Party, and the National Fascist Party in Italy are companion movements. All are leftist resulting in dictatorships with industry controlled by the State. There is more but I am keeping this short
None of these guy or organizations were ever right of center but always blood brothers in leftist totalitarianism.
As a result many people paid a heavy price.
All leftist hate Christians or those the follow “The Way”
Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, “If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32 (NET)
She followed behind Paul and us and kept crying out, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation.” Acts 16: 17 (NET)
The European Monarchies were like a Nuthouse. They could range from greatness to terrible in the next ruler. There was a lot of actual insanity.