The Freedom Center's president appears on Beck's program to discuss his new book, "A Point in Time."
BECK: A guy whose parents were actual Communists. He now spends more time fighting for the other side and is probably one of the biggest American heroes alive today. I want you to meet him. Everyone wants meaning in their lives. There is no such thing as social justice. We have to find meaning in the pain. We have to find meaning in joy. When we find meaning in whatever it is we’re doing we not only survive we thrive. David Horowitz has written a book called, "A Point In Time: The Search For Redemption In This Life And The Next." I just asked David before we came on the air, “Are you dying? Because this is a very philosophical book. You’re not dying are you?
HOROWITZ: No I'm not. I've written three books about mortality.
BECK: Why are you fascinated by it?
HOROWITZ: I’m 72 years old. When you get to pushing 70 you have to think about final things.
BECK: Man, you don’t look 70. I would have never guessed that. To put you in a context for anybody who doesn’t know, give us a little bit of history of your childhood and the 1960s.
HOROWITZ: I was born into a Communist family. Both of my parents were card carrying members. My whole family circle and their friends were Communists. I was a founder of the New Left in the Sixties. The New Left was founded by children of Communists who felt that Stalin had tainted socialism. We were going to revive it the socialist/Communist dream. That’s who we were.
BECK: Back then did you hang out with Bill Ayers?
HOROWITZ: Yeah. I despised him. When he was a senior in college he boasted that he hadn’t read a book in a year. Yet he was playing with people’s lives. He was a violent and destructive human being. I despised him.
BECK: I have to tell you that by page four of your book I said to myself this is one of the most beautifully written books I have read in a long time. I have to make decisions quickly as to which books I’m going to read all the way through. By page eight -- this usually doesn't happen by page eight -- I knew it was going to be a book I was going to read all the way through.
HOROWITZ: Thank you. I put a lot of work into making it a book one would want to read.
BECK: Here you are a guy who knows it inside and out, and then people like me come along who don’t. The first time we talked I didn’t know who you were. I didn’t know what progressivism was. How have you stood as a sentinel for so long with so much hatred, so that so many people have tried to destroy you? How have you done this without losing your mind watching what was happening to our country?
HOROWITZ: I was brought up that way in combat. My parents Communists were in the darkest moments of the Cold War. We were an isolated community, and my fights in school were all over Russia. I was brought up to engage in this battle. Now, to use a California term I’m living out a karma. I felt I had to take make sense of what I knew, to resolve it all in the end. This book, A Point in Time is really a summation of what I have learned. It’s a small book but it took me three years to write. I thank you for recognizing the effort I put in to make it what it is.
BECK: It's beautiful.
HOROWITZ: You have to ask yourself why people hate America. Why do they hate conservatives the way they do? It’s evident practically every time they open their mouths. They hate us. And I understand this in my bones because I grew up in the hate.
BECK: The hate.
HOROWITZ: What it comes from is a vision of a possible future that is perfect -- where there is no racism, no sexism, no war, no poverty. Where there’s social justice instead. If you believe that you can achieve a world like that then you see yourself in effect as part of the Army of the Saints, and everybody opposing you is the Party of Satan. If you think of hellfire and damnation preachers you understand exactly who “liberals” are.
BECK: You see it in Al Gore.
HOROWITZ: Of course.
BECK: You see it in anybody who’s on this climate thing. If you disagree with them you’re going directly to hell.
HOROWITZ: Exactly. Where does all this secular crusading come from? If you look at the decline of the organized religions which begins around the time of Darwin, that’s when you have the rise of socialism, Communism, fascism, all secular chiliastic faiths. All of these secularisms are really searches for redemption. But redemption in this life and achieved by human beings.
BECK: This is where President Obama gets the idea of collective salvation that he is always preaching about, which is the exact opposite of the Christian idea. The exact opposite understanding of what Christ, a divine being, did.
BECK: There is no collective salvation.
HOROWITZ: The one addition you have to make to this analysis, is to include the Islamists who are not secular but who believe in redeeming this world. A true Christian or Jew understands that only God can make this world right. The first chapters of Genesis reflect a very profound understanding of who we are.
When God expelled us from the Garden of Eden he put an angel with a flaming sword at the gate to prevent us from returning. We are the problem, not society. Society is just a reflection of who we are. We are the problem, and we can’t fix it. If you understand that, then you are a conservative. If you think that the human problem can be fixed by other human beings then you’re a leftist and dangerous.
BECK: I believe there are two categories in the left. There are those who really do have this hope, this idealistic, hope and they’re generally young. They believe if we have a big enough government we can get rid of all the bad guys.
HOROWITZ: It’s a youthful mistake. Young people do not understand. You have to have lived to witness how normal it is to be betrayed.
BECK: Over and over again. Betrayed by good people who were your friends who had a moment in time where they went off the tracks, and all of a sudden betrayed their friends.
HOROWITZ: You have to see into yourself, and see your own weaknesses.
BECK: There are the youthful naifs on the one hand, then there are the nasty ones who know and who are doing it for power.
HOROWITZ: Exactly. You start off as an idealist, but soon you find yourself chanting “Hey hey L.B.J, how many kids did you kill today?” which was the big slogan for my generation. I remember as a leftist thinking, “Would I rather be a prisoner of Lyndon Johnson and trust my fate with him or Ho Chi Minh?” The answer was obvious, even to a Marxist. That was one of the beginnings of my understanding of how wrong we were. It starts with idealism perhaps, but the higher the ideal -- the more the beautiful the idea of what you can achieve in this life -- the more destruction and hate that will enter your soul.
BECK: Unless it’s based on the individual ideal.
HOROWITZ: If you’re talking about the salvation of an individual soul, a truly religious person will understand that we see now through a glass darkly. Only after we die will we see face to face and learn whether there is meaning to our existence. Of course nobody knows whether there is or not. You can’t know. That’s why it’s a matter of faith.
BECK: You were raised in this hatred. You have a reason to hate now. So many people have tried to destroy you. I know what this is like from the last 4 years. It is exhausting. It really is exhausting. I have found my way to being able to find meaning in what I do and find meaning in their hate, and I’m actually growing in love. I actually am less angry today than I was four years ago which I think is a miracle in and of itself. How did you do that?
HOROWITZ: It’s been a lot easier for me since Obama was elected. With Obama, the left has come out into the open for everyone to see and conservatives are finally waking up to the threat they present. I’ve been sustained by conservative support but before these last few years conservatives never really understood what I was saying, what I was warning them about. I have to say you have been the biggest factor in releasing me from the frustrations of being a Cassandra, a voice crying in the wilderness. I feel very much at peace now. I feel if I had to leave this earth now, there are torchbearers behind me.
When I would watch your show, especially when you were first discovering what was out there, I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Someone had finally understood what these battles were about and was telling it to millions of Americans. I was just so happy. You know there’s a certain sadness I have because I feel our country hangs in the balance. America is completely unique. There’s no other country in the world like it. Democracy is an experiment that others have tried to follow. But if we’re gone it’s gone.
BECK: I can’t recommend all of David Horowitz’s books highly enough. This guy knows it firsthand. He says it, and he sees the way out. This is just a remarkable book: A Point In Time, The Search For Redemption In This Life And The Next. David is one of the bravest men I know. When he returns home it will be to his Father in heaven not his dad, who was a Communist. His Father in heaven will say a job well done. Good and faithful servant. He has stood against all odds. I tell you David, having spent just four years of my life in this battle I look so eagerly to see if there is anyone who gets it. Is there anyone who will pick up the torch? Is there anyone that can do it? When some of you have felt this about me, I take it as a profound compliment. I keep thinking: is there anybody else who sees it?
HOROWITZ: I think there are a lot of people who do. It’s the first time since I became a conservative 25 years ago I have the confidence that there is finally a conservative movement that understands this.
BECK: It needs to be global. What’s happening in Israel…
HOROWITZ: Israel is the canary in the mine. We are the great Satan, and Israel is the little Satan. If America cannot defend Israel it cannot defend itself. What we are confronting is a global Nazi movement. It’s Islamic Nazism. Hitler hid the final solution from the German people. Ahmadinejad and his comrades shout it from the rooftops. The left sees in Israel a little America. A little imperialist country propped up by the big imperialist country. The left has joined the struggle to destroy Israel and America. It’s mind boggling to see institutions like the Center for American Progress which is the brains trust of the Democratic party carrying water for the Muslim Brotherhood in its attempt to shut down its critics. I'm appalled at what’s happened to “liberalism” in our country. I can’t imagine that when I was a leftist I would have supported a Nazi organization like Hamas. Yet the Nation, the Huffington Post and a vast spectrum of progressive websites have become apologists for these Nazi movements like Hamas.
BECK: We've been talking to somebody America should pay attention to. David you know it’s just like Ronald Reagan said: “Time just caught up with me. I didn’t change.” All of it caught up to him. All of your work is being seen for the important work it is. America is no longer dismissing it. We were talking about Israel a second ago. The global change that is coming, and the quote conspiracy theory to end all conspiracy theories unquote -- that there are forces around the world who want to change everything, and they are playing with a fire called Islamic extremism, and want a Caliphate to rule an Islamicized world. Crazy, conspiracy theory.
HOROWITZ: Totally right. The Pew Trusts which is a liberal foundation just did a poll among American Muslims, and found that 60% of American Muslims are concerned or very concerned about growing extremism in the Muslim community in this country. If you say this or I do, we’re “Islamophobes.” There’s a lot of this attitude unfortunately in the Republican Party as well.
BECK: The people that were testifying before Congressman Peter King -- the Muslims -- were begging America, please help us. Help us. There’s growing extremism in our community; help us.
HOROWITZ: Because America is still a free country it’s basically a happy country. So people have a strong incentive not to want to face dark realities, particularly overseas. In April 1941 Gallup conducted a poll. At that time Hitler had overrun all of western Europe, and the Japanese had overrun southeast Asia. Gallup asked people whether America should get into the war. 80% said no. What changed that, and changed it overnight was Pearl Harbor. We saw one wakeup call over 9/11. But the country went B back to its happy ways. There’s a day of reckoning coming which will cost American lives. And at that point people are going to wake up and understand.
BECK: I’m very concerned that the progressive left, the radical left the revolutionaries that are in office now and have control of the Democratic Party have already done so much…
HOROWITZ: Most Americans actually understand somewhat what’s going on. 70% of New Yorkers were against the mosque near Ground Zero despite all that the Democrats and the cultural elites and a lot of Republicans did in the way of an appeasement dance. So I have great confidence in the American people. They may be slow to wake up, but when they do look out. That’s kind of what kept me going when I was a relatively isolated voice. I’ve lived to see a great wake up call. Starting with your show, and then the Tea Party, which is an amazing development in American politics.
BECK: David Horowitz is the man you've been listening to, and the author of a great book, A Point in Time: The Search for Redemption in this Life and the Next. David, I hope we spend some more time together in the future.
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